Ticket #41929

Multishot Embassy Creators in civ2civ3 Create Problems (3.0.0-beta1+ 85e81abef5)

Open Date: 2021-04-06 20:36 Last Update: 2021-04-26 22:49

5 - Medium
5 - Medium


In civ2civ3, right now, Explorers and Diplomats can create multiple Embassies. Given that one starts with one of each and all players start on the same continent, within a short number of turns, the player can easily have an Embassy with all other players. This obsoletes Marco Polo's and creates lots of tech-leakage.

There are several solutions. My favourite is:

 - remove the Explorer's ability to create embassies and change the Diplomat so that it gets used up when it creates an Embassy (no change to Spies, which are only available much later).

Some other possible solutions (but we might need more than one of them) are:

 - changing the reward for Marco Polo's to something that one could want (like trade routes give one extra gold)
 - remove explorer and diplomat from the starting units (so you have to do some research first)
 - remove tech-leakage
 - place starting players on different islands

Ticket History (3/13 Histories)

2021-04-06 20:36 Updated by: chippo
  • New Ticket "Multishot Embassy Creators in civ2civ3 Create Problems (3.0.0-beta1+ 85e81abef5)" created
2021-04-06 21:33 Updated by: cazfi
  • Resolution Update from None to Accepted
  • Milestone Update from (None) to 3.0.0-beta2 (closed)
  • Component Update from (None) to Rulesets

Attached patch makes embassy establishing to consume Diplomat or Explorer.

The rule change itself is trivial, but help updates required more work. Unfortunately I couldn't help strings between different rulesets from becoming less reusable, so there's more work for translators with this.

2021-04-07 01:47 Updated by: cazfi

The new patch file is the same patch as earlier, but extracted from S3_0 (earlier was from master), so it hopefully applies better for Chippo.

2021-04-07 02:04 Updated by: chippo

It applies fine to S3_0.

2021-04-07 05:27 Updated by: chippo

It works for me.

2021-04-12 18:04 Updated by: alain_bkr

it applies on 3.0 and works for me too.

2021-04-14 00:51 Updated by: cazfi
  • Status Update from Open to Closed
  • Owner Update from (None) to cazfi
  • Resolution Update from Accepted to Fixed
2021-04-14 08:14 Updated by: chippo

While I don't approve of ML's patch (I wanted Explorers to lose Ambassador abilities altogether), the game is SOOOO much improved since then. I'm not a great player, so these stats should be considered appropriately. Before this patch, in 70 turns I would be dominating. Post this patch, it takes me about 200 turns before I rule.

Well done ML!

2021-04-14 17:18 Updated by: cazfi

Reply To chippo

(I wanted Explorers to lose Ambassador abilities altogether)

Open a new ticket if that's something you want when we go towards 3.1. I don't think it's a critical one that should go to S3_0?

2021-04-26 21:17 Updated by: bard

Good call. I find important that you fixed this one. Thank you.

I wanted Explorers to lose Ambassador abilities altogether

I submitted those changes to explorers before the release of v2.6, and I guess I did not test them properly in v3.0.

I'd like to keep the ability of explorers to investigate enemy cities without being killed, but I agree the ability to build embassies could be removed. I might do it in the future.

(Edited, 2021-04-26 21:18 Updated by: bard)
2021-04-26 22:49 Updated by: chippo

Reply To bard

I'd like to keep the ability of explorers to investigate enemy cities without being killed,

Absolutely! It was one of the (many) cool features of civ2civ3. I feel it's completely fair and it even matches real life.

But on this point, I don't think the AIs know/knew about the features that the Explorer has (and had). For example I never saw an AI establish an embassy with an Explorer, even when they had multi-shot capabilities.

Ditto for Diplomat. The AI's Diplomat would end its moves right next to our city. Next turn, it would establish an Embassy and do nothing with its 1 2/3 moves left - my Diplomat would be two squares away already. It was like the AI expected its Diplomat to get killed and then next turn discovers it has an unexpected extra Diplomat and decides to do something with it.

(Edited, 2021-04-28 03:37 Updated by: chippo)


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